TF1659: Canada Line to Ladner?

SpongeG: "Ladner is such a small community though surrounded by land that will never be redeveloped so there isn't much chance of major redevelopment happening as there will never be a population increase. It's like a gold ticket VIP train service for a select few."

It's not just Ladner that would get served though. With a Park and Ride station just on the south end of the new bridge, plus a terminus at the Ladner Bus Loop it would serve all of Delta, Tsawwassen (and the ferries), White Rock, South Surrey and even potentially some Langley commuters. It would be an excellent anchor point for a new Commuter Light Rail Line from the ferries, to Ladner, then South Surrey, Langley and maybe even Abbotsford and Chilliwack.

TF#1659. 2019-02-25.

Light Blue = Canada Line Extension
Royal Blue = Expo Line Langley Extension
Dark Grey = At Grade Light Rail

Comments

fredinno: Light Rail not for Far & Fast?
Most people need to go far and fast, which is not really what LRT and Light Metro are designed for.

waves:

Ladner/Delta/South Surrey, these are all semi-urban areas. It's these kinds of areas where Light Rail works BEST!

• Line travels through both suburban and non-urban areas. Some stations need to be close together and some farther apart. For commuter rail, all the stations have to be far apart.
• LRT trains can be lower than commuter trains meaning stations are less bulky and cheaper.
• Faster acceleration and deceleration times for LRT vehicles over commuter rail vehicles means that LRT can run on roadway medians instead of only on heavy rail right-of-ways.
• The suburban and non-urban nature tends to have more roadway medians and other right-of-way land available than inner city. LRT is not a good choice for urban options because the land is only available with significant consequences to other transportation modes.
• Large suburban grid structures mean that signal timing can be achieved relatively easily without big effects on cars and without delaying the trains.
• Commuter trains are more expensive to operate and have higher minimum headways due to lower deceleration capabilities. (trains will come less often)

LRT vehicles are capable of 100+ km/hr if so desired. Portland's max operating speed is 95km/hr. Travelling at 100 km/hr from South Surrey to Ladner and then from Ladner to the ferries would be perfect for convincing many people to switch to public transit rather than driving and paying for parking at the ferries.

TF#1664. 2019-02-28.

What will it cost?

waves:

I revamped my Rail Rapid Transit Cost Calculator. It is now all in 2018 dollars and has the new Broadway Study numbers in it. I have also done the calculations to allow more specific calculation of Skytrain vs. Canada Line vs. LRT and ect.

https://1drv.ms/x/s!AjWWltw_HSwziMxlv1-Ki8hc5t2YRw

Without contingencies:

• Canada Line Extension to Ladner (14km/7stations): $1.53 billion
• Ladner to Tsawwassen Ferry Terminal LRT (11km/3stations): $818 million
• Ladner to Langley LRT (31km/9stations): $3.05 billion
• Langley to Abbotsford LRT (27.2km/11 stations): $2.98 billion

Since these are very long term projects, Surrey, Delta, Langley, MOTI and others could prepare for these improvements before hand which may bring down costs significantly (for LRT). For instance, utility replacement or road repaving could be completed along highway 10 with right of way accommodation for a future LRT line in the median. Also, when intersections are improved, they could be built with future LRT handling capabilities. Especially for such a long distance, having all of these things slowly get implemented incidentally and negligibly through other programs would significantly reduce the costs above. I would even hazard to say by up to 50%.

TF#1671. 2019-03-03

 But isn't $5.5 billion a lot of money?

waves:

When you only have to lay track rather than rip up the ground it can save you $50 million a km. Look at the cost difference per km of at-grade in Alberta vs. at-grade Kitchner/Victoria.

Characterizing it as $5.5 billion is a bit unfair as a Langley-Tsawwassen LRT would not be built at the same time as a Canada Line Extension to Ladner. You could, however, see a B-Line go in and then 10 years down the road have it replaced with LRT. With that in mind, you are looking at likely looking at a $2 billion Canada Line Extension + B-Line combo which is very reasonable.

You could of course send the line on the existing rail right of way from Ladner to Langley but it would bypass the suburban areas and it would be a missed opportunity for more development and ridership within the urban containment zone. (Green rather than Black). The better prepared a right of way is for LRT, the cheaper it becomes. LRT that has been put in place on exisiting rails and is single tracked has been know to cost as little at $1.5million/km. Where they have to put in rail, $10-15million/km. I imagine that if the governments are smart about setting aside land and utility locations they could reach the $20 million/km range. If they can reach that, they could get an LRT to Langley for under $1.5 billion.

TF#1675. 2019-03-05.